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Transcript of Telephone Investigations

Excerpts of telephone exchanges between Canadian and U.S. investigators and officials in Chinese detention centers and hospitals.

Appendix 14 of the Report into Allegations of Organ Harvesting of Falun Gong Practitioners in China

[Editor’s note: Below are excerpts of telephone conversations between Canadian and U.S. investigators (M and N) and officials in detention centers and hospitals in China. The recorded conversation was listened to and certified by a certified Madarin-English interpreter with the Government of Ontario.]

(1) Mijiang City Detention Center, Heilongjiang Province (June 8, 2006):

M: Do you have Falun Gong [organ] suppliers? …

Mr. Li: We used to have, yes.

M: … what about now?

Mr. Li: … Yes.


M: Can we come to select, or you provide directly to us?

Mr. Li: We provide them to you.

M: What about the price?

Mr. Li: We discuss after you come.


M: How many [Falun Gong suppliers] under age 40 do you have?

Mr. Li: Quite a few.


M: Are they male or female?{mospagebreak}

Mr. Li: Male


M: Now, for … the male Falun Gong [prisoners], how many of them do you have?

Mr. Li: Seven, eight, we have [at least] five, six now.

M: Are they from countryside or from the city?

Mr. Li: Countryside.

(2) Shanghai’s Zhongshan Hospital Organ Transplant Clinic (March 16, 2006):

M: Hi. Are you a doctor?

Doctor: Yes, I am…


M: … So how long do I have to wait [for organ transplant surgery]?

Doctor: About a week after you come…

M: Is there the kind of organs that come from Falun Gong? I heard that they are very good.

Doctor: All of ours are those types.

(3) Qianfoshan City Liver Transplant Hospital, Shandong Province
(March 16, 2006):

Receptionist: Hold a second. I’ll get a doctor for you.
Doctor: Hello. How are you?

M: … How long have you been doing [these operations]?…{mospagebreak}

Doctor: … Over four years.

M: The supply of livers… the ones from Falun Gong, I want to ask if you have those types?

Doctor: It is ok if you come here.

M: So that means you have them?

Doctor: … In April, there will be more of these kinds of suppliers… now, gradually, we have more and more."

M: Why will there be more in April?

Doctor: This I can’t explain to you…

(4) Nanning City Minzu Hospital in Guangxi Autonomous Region
(May 22, 2006):

M: Could you find organs from Falun Gong practitioners?

Dr. Lu: Let me tell you, we have no way to get [them]. It’s rather difficult to get it now in Guangxi. If you cannot wait, I suggest you go to Guangzhou because it’s very easy for them to get the organs. They are able to look for them nationwide. As they are performing the liver transplant, they can get the kidney for you at the same time, so it’s very easy for them to do. Many places where supplies are short go to them for help.


M: Why is it easy for them to get?…

Lu: Because they are an important institution. They contact the judicial system in the name of the whole university.

M: Then they use organs from Falun Gong practitioners?{mospagebreak}

Lu: Correct…


M: … What you used before [organs from Falun Gong practitioners], were they from detention center(s) or prison(s)?"

Lu: From prisons.

M: … And it was from healthy Falun Gong practitioners…?

Lu: Correct. We would choose the good ones because we assure the quality in our operation.

M: That means you choose the organs yourself.

Lu: Correct…


M: Usually, how old is the organ supplier?

Lu: Usually in their thirties.

M: … Then you will go to the prison to select yourself?

Lu: Correct. We must select it.

M: What if the chosen one doesn’t want to have blood drawn?

Lu: He will for sure let us do it.

M: How?

Lu: They will for sure find a way. What do you worry about? These kinds of things should not be of any concern to you. They have their procedures.{mospagebreak}

M: Does the person know that his organ will be removed?

Lu: No, he doesn’t.

(5) Shanghai Jiaotong University Hospital’s Liver Transplant Center
(March 16, 2006):

M: I want to know how long [the patients] have to wait [for a liver transplant].

Dr. Dai: The supply of organs we have, we have every day. We do them every day.

M: We want fresh, alive ones.

Dr. Dai: They are all alive, all alive…

M: How many [liver transplants] have you done?

Dr. Dai: We have done 400 to 500 cases… Your major job is to come, prepare the money, enough money, and come.

M: How much is it?

Dr. Dai: If everything goes smoothly, it’s about RMB 150,000… RMB 200,000.

M: How long do I have to wait?

Dr. Dai: I need to check your blood type… If you come today, I may do it for you within one week.

M: I heard some come from those who practice Falun Gong, those who are very healthy.

Dr. Dai: Yes, we have. I can’t talk clearly to you over the phone.

M: If you can find me this type, I am coming very soon.

Dr. Dai: It’s ok. Please come.{mospagebreak}

M: … What is your last name?…

Dr. Dai: I’m Doctor Dai.

(6) Zhengzhou Medical University Organ Transplant Center in Henan Province (March 14, 2006):

Dr. Wang: … For sure, [the organ] is healthy… If it’s not healthy, we won’t take it.

M: I’ve heard that those kidneys from Falun Gong practitioners are better. Do you have them?

Wang: Yes, yes, we pick all young and healthy kidneys…

M: That is the kind that practices this type of [Falun] Gong.

Wang: For this, you could rest assured. Sorry I can’t tell you much on the phone.

M: Do you get [them] out of town?

Wang: … We have local ones and out-of-town ones.


M: What is your last name?

Wang: Wang.

(7) Oriental Organ Transplant Center (also called Tianjin City No. 1 Central Hospital), Tianjin City (March 15, 2006):

N: Is this Chief Physician Song?

Song: Yes, please speak.


N: Her doctor told her that the kidney is quite good because he [the supplier] practices … Falun Gong.

Song: Of course. We have all those who breathe and with heartbeat… Up until now, for this year, we have more than ten kidneys, more than ten such kidneys.

N: More than ten of this kind of kidneys? You mean live bodies?
Song: Yes, it is so.

(8) Tongji Hospital in Wuhan City, Wuhan City, Hubei Province (March 30, 2006):

N: How many [kidney transplants] can you do in a year?

Official: … Our department is the one that does the most in the whole Hubei province. We do a lot if the organ suppliers are ample.

N: … We hope the kidney suppliers are alive. [We’re] looking for live organ transplants from prisoners, for example, using living bodies from prisoners who practice Falun Gong. Is it possible?

Official: It’s not a problem.

(9) General Hospital of Guangzhou Military Region, Guangdong Province (April 12, 2006):

N: Is this Dr. Zhu…?

Zhu: Yes, that’s me.

N: I’m from hospital 304. … I have two relatives in hospital 304. We don’t have enough kidney supply right now. We did a lot of [kidney transplants] in 2001, 2002, and 2003…

Zhu: Right…

N: We found that kidneys from young people and Falun Gong [practitioners] are better. How about your hospital, such as kidneys from Falun Gong?

Zhu: We have very few kidneys from Falun Gong.{mospagebreak}

N: But you still have some?

Zhu: It is not hard for [blood] type B. If you come here, we can arrange it quickly, definitely before May 1.

N: There will be a batch before May 1?

Zhu: Several batches.

N: Will you have some after May 1?

Zhu: After May 1, you may need to wait until May 20 or later.


(10) First Detention Center of Qinhuangdao City, Hebei Province (May 18, 2006):

N: Is this the First Detention Center of Qinhuangdao City?

Official: What’s up?

N: We are doing kidney transplantations and we don’t have enough organs.

Official: You don’t need to call here. You just call the court.

N: Which court?

Official: It is the Intermediate People’s Court. You need to tell them about such thing.

N: In 2001, you provided live organs from young and healthy people who practiced Falun Gong…

Official: You don’t need to talk about that time. It has been so many years. Right now it is with the court. You just call them.

(11) The Second Detention Center of Qinhuangdao City, Shangdong Province (May 18, 2006):{mospagebreak}


N: … I wonder whether you still have live organ supplies from people such as those practicing Falun Gong?

Official: No, we don’t have Falun Gong [organs] right now. There are very few people-almost none. During earlier 2000s there [were] many Falun Gong [organs].


(12) The Qinhuangdao Intermediate People’s Court, Shangdong Province (May 18, 2006):


N: … Can your court provide us with some live kidneys from young and healthy people?

Official: No matter good or bad, we have none. There is no execution after the Spring festival…

N: … I mean live kidneys from young and healthy people who practice Falun Gong. You had a lot in 2001…

Official: We had before…

N: … Not just the executed prisoners-such live organs as Falun Gong…?
Official: No, what you said is in 2001. We have to face reality now…


(13) The First Criminal Bureau of the Jinzhou Intermediate People’s Court (May 23, 2006):

N: Starting from 2001, we always [got] kidneys from young and healthy people who practice Falun Gong from detention centers and courts… I wonder if you still have such organs in your court right now?

Official: That depends on your qualifications… If you have good qualifications, we may still provide some…

N: Are we supposed to get them, or will you prepare for them?"
Official: According to past experience, it is you that will come here to get them.

Official: According to past experience, it is you that will come here to get them.

N: … What are the qualifications that we must have?

Official: … Let’s say for now this year is very different from previous years. This year the situation is very tough… The policy is very strict. Several years ago we had a good relationship with Beijing, but recently it is very tense… It’s all about mutual benefits…

(14) Kunming Higher People’s Court (May 31, 2006):

N: … We contacted your court several times in 2001. Your court can provide us with those live kidney organs from those young and healthy Falun Gong practitioners…?

Official: I am not sure about that. Such things are related to national secrets. I don’t think this is something that we can talk about on the phone. If you want to know more information about these things, you’d better contact us in a formal way, okay? 


Reprint with permission from